Deleting channels?

2024-10-13 15:38:11

adminsforum@hubzilla.org

dynamic_hubzilla schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Sun, 13 Oct 2024 15:38:10 +0200

Deleting channels?

Is there any way to delete channels?

I previously set up several channels for myself to test things out, but right now they mostly feel like unnecessary clutter.

2024-10-13 15:41:45

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@dynamic_hubzilla Sure. Just go to the settings of the channel you want to delete, and then click the big red button in the top right corner :)

2024-10-13 15:43:54

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Be careful, though: Once you've deleted a channel, nobody, not even yourself, can ever create a channel with this name on this hub ever again.

So if you think, "I don't need this channel right now, I'mma delete it, maybe I'll make a new one with the same name when I feel like it": No can do.

2024-10-13 16:04:09

dynamic_hubzilla

dynamic@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Jupiter Rowland

That's a hell of a caveat. Thanks for including the warning!

2024-11-02 19:42:02

od@zotum.net

@Jupiter Rowland

Once you've deleted a channel, nobody, not even yourself, can ever create a channel with this name on this hub ever again.

Not true. Hub web server administrators can easily delete accounts, profiles, channels, to allow re-creation of these hubzilla actors with the same name.

This ability is a weakness of nomadic identity.

If a hubzilla actor (channel, profile), creates content that is published _before_ deletion, when the new actor is created with the same name, there is a identity failure throughout fediverse.

The hubzilla web server administrator does not have to delete the hubzilla actor; (s)he may not be able to before the original hubzilla actor name has propagated throughout the fediverse.

2024-11-02 20:09:31

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@od First of all, you actually can't simply create a channel with an identity that used to exist on that hub. Notice the word "simply".

For starters, you have to know about this phenomenon. Since this is unique to Hubzilla, the huge majority of newbies does not know about it.

Then you have to know that the hubmin can completely delete your old channel, and you can create a new one with the same name afterwards.

Then you have to figure out who the hubmin is. Not all public hubs have a link to the hubmin's channel readily available on the "About" page.

Then you have to DM to the hubmin and hope they don't have DMs from strangers turned off.

Then you have to wait for the hubmin to react. On some hubs, this can take weeks, and I'm not kidding. And you have to hope that the hubmin is experienced enough in SQL-fu to do what you want them to do.

2024-11-07 19:25:50

od@zotum.net

@Jupiter Rowland

> First of all, you actually can't simply create a channel with an identity that used to exist on that hub.

To repeat: it is easy to do and that ease is the fundamental weakness of nomadic identity

https://zotum.net/display/1e53f8d0-5ab5-4618-a52d-9151a9b62de7

2024-11-21 08:09:42

NorVegan

norvegan@zotum.net

@Jupiter Rowland Are you sure about this? Before I knew how cloning worked, I signed up to netzgemeinde with my usual handle for the purpose of cloning just to discover that I couldn't clone using my usual handle because it had just been taken by myself 🤦‍♂️ Naturally I deleted the account I just created so I could clone to it and I don't need to tell you how that went...

Anyway, I contacted the hubadmin and told him about the situation and he told me that it's not possible to do anything about it. But you're saying it is?

2024-11-21 10:12:02

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@NorVegan I've been told that it's possible for hubmins to remove the credentials of a deleted channel by digging into the database and removing the record manually. This way, you can create a channel, delete it, ask the hubmin to delete its record from the database and then create a channel with the same ID.

I do not know, however, whether the remains of previously cloned channels can be removed the same way.

2024-11-21 13:06:39

dynamic_hubzilla

dynamic@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Jupiter Rowland @NorVegan

Seems plausible to me that the ability exists (either through the user interface or by mucking around with the database by hand... do we even know which of these applies?) and not every admin knows about it...

2024-11-21 14:06:34

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@dynamic_hubzilla The Hubzilla admin UI doesn't provide any means to do this AFAIK.

If you're lucky, you've got something like PHPMyAdmin. If not, it's SQL-Fu on the command line.

2024-11-21 14:14:00

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

Technically it's possible to do anything with mucking about in the database. That doesn't necessarily make it a good idea :)

One problem I can think of is that other sites may not be willing to accept or send activities from/to a connection if it has changed it's public key. To fix this, you would (at least currently) also have to muck about in the databases of the remote sites as well.

I assume this is the core of the issue discussed here.

2024-11-21 14:25:10

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Harald Eilertsen Depends.

If you've deleted a channel, as in its main instance, and that channel has already had interactions with something else, purging it from the database to re-create it leans on playing with fire. But even then, the idea isn't to re-create the channel and pretend it's the same channel as before. The idea is rather to create a whole new channel with a whole new set of connections, just with the same name.

If you've tried to clone a channel, a clone was created, but the clone is so broken that it's completely useless, and you can't do anything with it except delete it, then the clone can't possibly have interacted with anything out there using its own public key.

2024-11-29 18:00:10

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Harald Eilertsen

Technically it's possible to do anything with mucking about in the database. That doesn't necessarily make it a good idea :)

One problem I can think of is that other sites may not be willing to accept or send activities from/to a connection if it has changed it's public key. To fix this, you would (at least currently) also have to muck about in the databases of the remote sites as well.

if an exported and than deleted channel would be imported again by the .json file but with a different channel handel would that channel work in a network ?

2024-11-02 21:03:05

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@od

This ability is a weakness of nomadic identity.

It is not a weakness in nomadic identity. Hubzilla is just missing a feature. Namely, the ability to change your keys and for hubs to recognize that a different user might be using the same channel address.

This is something that could be fixed on the Hubzilla side of things.

Although platforms such as Mastodon might assume that it is the same user.

2024-10-13 17:35:37

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@dynamic_hubzilla

Once you've deleted a channel, nobody, not even yourself, can ever create a channel with this name on this hub ever again.

It is quite possible to recreate a channel with the same name. However, YOU must contact the administrator of the hub and ask them to delete the old channel name from the database. This does not involve any work.

---
Sent by a #Hubzilla instance to the #Fediverse

2024-11-07 22:59:58

od@zotum.net

@Rogue Runner
@Scott M. Stolz

Thė suggestions about keys seem great: how to create an environment for new programmers to join the project and write such vital feature?

2024-11-09 12:16:06

Scott's Code Journal

scott@codejournal.dev

@od I suppose the first step would be discussing it with @Mario Vavti and coming up with a plan on how to implement it.

This discussion came up several times before, and it is something that could be addressed, although with some caveats. I am not sure how much work it would take to make it happen though.

https://hubzilla.org/display/b64.aHR0cHM6Ly96b3RhZGVsLm5ldC9pdGVtL2QyNjY0ZTIxLTAyZGMtNDU1MC1iOGE3LTMxMTE4OTQyZGViMg

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/reuse-of-identity-channel-addresses-revocation-reissue-of-keys/2888

2024-11-09 14:31:30

od@zotum.net

Nomadic identity cannot work if security keys are _not_ mandatory.

2024-11-20 07:51:58

Ema エマ

ema@utasansh.in

When moving to another server, you‘ll have to copy over the database. @K&T Host helped me the last time doing it, and before that, it was @elmussol who helped me.
I think before doing it, you should go offline with your old server, and only when things are done, you should go online with the new server.

2024-11-21 14:27:05

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

With phpMyAdmin it's a piece of cake.

2024-12-01 17:07:36

Rogue Runner

cisco@inlakech.site

Why not issue a duplicate channel key to the admin every time a new channel is created on the server... these keys would be permanent and also delete-able. The user channel keys on the other hand would be time stamped and expire after a period of time... but some days or weeks prior to expiry, a warning to the user is issued to renew your key... if the key is not renewed by the user, the admin will have the option to renew, re-assign a new server, or delete the keys.

A modified version of guest access app could be used... except it would be modified for admin use only as key/token manager. That way a built in or addon UI would be possible for the admin to manage all the server keys.